tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post499285850362517844..comments2024-03-12T22:45:16.936+01:00Comments on The Disoriented Ranger: Pimping the Cleric Part 1 (Rituals)Jens D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-87645458113690716962013-08-07T00:34:09.799+02:002013-08-07T00:34:09.799+02:00Really good to know. Didn't get any hate mails...Really good to know. Didn't get any hate mails either. And thanks! That's what I was aiming for. The more the players are involved, the better. The whole spiritual character of the class is far too easy neglected. One of my players had actually to ask every session what the name of his clerics god was. It's that detached.Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-76823901914128965922013-08-06T13:18:14.925+02:002013-08-06T13:18:14.925+02:00Didn't cause me to go clutching at my pearls! ...Didn't cause me to go clutching at my pearls! I like this idea, and I like the way this mechanic fosters a player driven fleshing out of the campaign. <br />"I want to make a sacrifice"<br />"Ok, what do you want to sacrifice and how do you want to do it?<br />"Uhhh... My god is a god of war, so a warhorse, with a ritual sword."<br />Bam instant info about the god of war. David The Archmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649391406526258069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-70823048049237073902013-08-04T19:28:50.350+02:002013-08-04T19:28:50.350+02:00Okay, I see what you mean (I didn't call it &q...Okay, I see what you mean (I didn't call it "nebulous" for that reason). And I have to agree, if the players chose those restrictions, it works (a bit) like weapon restrictions do (right?). In that regard one could consider it a mechanic. Looking at the greater picture (which it not necessarily needs in the Game, but anyway), I like to have some underlying structure that explains it in an abstract way. So what I tried to do is an abstract mechanic able to "explain it all", the Wu Jen concept is more something setting-specific (and I'm sure it works very well at that). That's why I got a bit unsure what you meant.<br /><br />Thanks for contributing and clearing it up! There is definitely more to be said about how a system is supposed to work or where it lacks (house rules being a symptom of that) and I'm starting to believe that the whole setting specific rules from AD&D onwards tried to mask what the core rules failed to achieve. Sometimes, as is the case with the Wu Jen (like you used them), this works really good. Sometimes you get Bladesingers. Food for thought, thanks again.Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-24411180543322938732013-08-04T18:53:33.985+02:002013-08-04T18:53:33.985+02:00I was talking about the Wu Jen, but it applies equ...I was talking about the Wu Jen, but it applies equally to your mechanic. I brought Wu Jen up because it's a similar sort of idea that I've used in the past with some success. I think that any mechanic like yours that nails down the spiritual side of the cleric to some concrete rules is an excellent idea.<br /><br />Wu Jen make up their own restrictions, yeah. I don't consider it a nebulous roleplaying restriction because, at least the way we used it, it consisted of flat behavioural rules. "Don't touch a corpse or you'll lose your powers" is about as much a roleplaying restriction as "don't touch a fire or you'll take D6 damage", as opposed to something like a paladin's compulsion to "be good", whatever that means. In our case, the penalty wasn't too onerous because everyone picked vows they liked and nobody ever broke them anyway, but obviously a reward system like yours has certain benefits.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-55299354236330670082013-08-04T18:06:59.517+02:002013-08-04T18:06:59.517+02:00It's rather not player-initiated, but a mechan...It's rather not player-initiated, but a mechanic to be used to the extent the players and the DM feel comfortable. That's the point. As far as I'm aware, there is no concept of what a shrine is or how devotion is "measurable" in D&D (as hp are, for instance). And that in a Game that totally relies on those things (the gods are real and all that). Or is it all just flavor text?<br /><br />So what I was asking myself for some time now, is: What does it really mean if there's an evil shrine in a dungeon? How important is it for a cleric to believe in his god or is the struggles between the powers that be just something that happens outside the rules? Is it something you're supposed to just roleplay (the thief would be happy if it was like that for thieving skills)? Or does it need a mechanic to allow it a presence in the game (because, you know, if they have to "roleplay" it, D&D is the wrong Game)? And I don't mean the spells, they're just tools that lacked somewhere else in the game. Another argument would be that it gives the DM some guidelines what works how in a setting and the implications it has.<br /><br />I hope I didn't threaten any religious sensibilities with this, though...Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-8875860249082617682013-08-04T17:43:15.391+02:002013-08-04T17:43:15.391+02:00Sorry, I just realized you might in your second pa...Sorry, I just realized you might in your second paragraph still talk about the Wu Jen. Are you? (It would be a bit contradictory though, because it describes what I think are roleplaying restrictions, not a mechanic...)Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-53137405566099820682013-08-04T17:31:11.554+02:002013-08-04T17:31:11.554+02:00Thanks! That's what I was aiming for. I'm ...Thanks! That's what I was aiming for. I'm not here to tell people how they have to play their believes. In our game the mechanic felt necessary, though. And it worked in making the cleric more active in his role.<br /><br />Those Wu Jen give an excellent example how this could work (if the player is the one coming up with the restrictions, that is, he wants to play it that way...) without killing a cow every now and then. Say, he burns some incense (somewhat expensive or hard to come by, maybe) and keeps up his routine, I'd give the character his Gratitude Points (after a successful WIS-Check). But taking away their powers is somewhat harsh. After a fumble, maybe? But yeah, you're definitely right, I'm not a fan of nebulous roleplaying restrictions, either.Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-29616081806397231102013-08-04T16:33:21.507+02:002013-08-04T16:33:21.507+02:00Well said. DnD does need more PC-initiated sacrif...Well said. DnD does need more PC-initiated sacrifices...Billyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16717291964764757651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6617677799085549365.post-4464363722491285272013-08-04T15:16:39.986+02:002013-08-04T15:16:39.986+02:00In Oriental Adventures, Wu Jen have to choose spec...In Oriental Adventures, Wu Jen have to choose special vows as they go up in level. Things like never cutting their hair, never lighting a fire, never touching a dead body, always giving hospitality to strangers, making a small sacrifice every morning, spending at least four hours a day in prayer. If they violate a taboo, they lose their spell-casting powers until they've made suitable atonement (sacrifice). <br /><br />I think that makes an excellent cleric mechanic. It introduces a spiritual component into the game, but in the form of hard and fast rules rather than nebulous roleplaying restrictions. It defines the cleric's religion in a way that leaves the player free to roleplay the other aspects of their character however they like - they just have to make sure they don't break their vows.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.com